April 29th, 2015 at 7:44 pm
“The whole “atheists just believe in one fewer gods than you do” thing isn’t very helpful.”
It’s also not really true. If we define atheism in an abstract dictionary way, then technically yes, it is supposed to be a lack of belief in God or gods.
But atheism does not actually function that way in real human beings. It functions as a belief, a religion, complete with it’s own set of myths.
Almost all religions have a very basic threefold narrative structure at their heart.
Chapter One: What went wrong with the world/human beings. Chapter Two: what sets things right. Chapter Three: The final act or consummation.
In Christianity these three chapters are called The Fall, The Incarnation, and The Second Coming.
In Buddhism they are Illusion/Maya, the coming of the Bhudda and personal enlightenment, and the final liberation of all sentient beings.
In atheism it goes like this. Chapter One, the world was in darkness and ignorance due to superstition and religion. Chapter Two, the Enlightenment dawns and the liberation of humanity begins. Chapter Three, the world will finally be saved when all people are atheists.
This narrative pattern is universal. It can be found everywhere. It is found in “religion” in the usual sense of that term, and it is found in many secular philosophies and ideologies, including atheism.
It is impossible to avoid, because it is hardwired into human nature. Whether by God, or evolution, or God working through evolution, does not really matter at this point.
So, in terms of how atheism functions in real people, it functions as a religion.
Now, just to be clear, as I am often misunderstood on this point, I am NOT saying this proves God exists. It simply proves, to me at least, that religion is universal and innate in all human beings. As to why that is, well that is a matter of opinion and the personal experiences that have defined us.
Griff (9,439 comments) says:
April 29th, 2015 at 7:54 pm
You are confusing mine and some others philosophy and understanding of history with atheism.
You dont have to even know of the enlightenment to be an atheist.
Or believe in any thing
All that is required to become an atheist is to stop believing in gods.
Griff (9,439 comments) says:
April 29th, 2015 at 7:54 pm
But atheism does not actually function that way in real human beings. It functions as a belief, a religion, complete with it’s own set of myths.
No Shawn atheism is the lack of belief in gods
that is all.
nothing else is mandatory.
that is all.
nothing else is mandatory.
a good flow of commentary continues
You are confusing mine and some others philosophy and understanding of history with atheism.
You dont have to even know of the enlightenment to be an atheist.
Or believe in any thing
All that is required to become an atheist is to stop believing in gods.
But atheism does not actually function that way in real human beings. It functions as a belief, a religion, complete with it’s own set of myths.
See what I mean about brain damage?
Atheism is not a religion. It contains no tenets. No set of beliefs. No practices. It doesnt impart anything like a moral code.
To be an atheist requires absolutely nothing other than not believing in God.
In order to label atheism a religion, the definition of the word has to be expanded to encompass practically every single human action. But that is no problem for people who believe in invisible cloud bouncers.
If atheism is a religion, the OFF is a TV channel.
And not watching rugby means you support a team called NONE.
You are still a fan of sport of course, even if you dont watch any or care about it at all. Even if you hate all games.
Asportism is just another sport. Right? Because human brains like games and tribal things.
The whole “atheists just believe in one fewer gods than you do” thing isn’t very helpful.
Theists, whichever version of God they believe in, see the world fundamentally differently from atheists.
The step from theism to atheism (or vice versa) is a paradigm shift, not just the removal or addition of one new thing within the same paradigm.
Ryan Sproull (7,570 comments) says:
Atheism is a paradigm shift
The removal of one thing.
faith.
No belief of things with no supporting evidence
It is a more significant change than that.
For example, it changes what “belief” and “things” even mean.
Did not believing in the tooth fairy or santa change realty for you that much?
No, because whether someone is a theist or an atheist, the Tooth Fairy and Santa are not inextricably woven into your entire worldview. The difference between the theist and the atheist is not that one assents to the claim “God exists” and the other does not. The theist has a Goddy worldview. To the theist, God is the source of and the definition of pervasive background values like truth, goodness and beauty.
People think that a theist becoming an atheist is like taking a piece of paper and erasing the part that says “God exists”.
What I’m saying is that a theist becoming an atheist (or vice versa) is like changing the paper itself.
No, because whether someone is a theist or an atheist, the Tooth Fairy and Santa are not inextricably woven into your entire worldview.
They are woven into the entire world view of a child. A child’s realty doesn’t collapse when they find the truth they just stop believing in fairy tales.
God is the source of and the definition of pervasive background values like truth, goodness and beauty.
Truth, goodness and beauty are individual value judgements not defined by a belief in god.
My definition of truth, goodness and beauty is different to yours.
yours will be different to that of Shawn .
yours will be different to that of Shawn .
That you think yours comes from god is your personal belief .
I still have an interpretation of such abstracts as truth, goodness and beauty sans a god.
God is not needed to think in the abstract.
I still have an interpretation of such abstracts as truth, goodness and beauty sans a god.
God is not needed to think in the abstract.
Truth, goodness and beauty are individual value judgements not defined by a belief in god.
For the theist, they are.
My definition of truth, goodness and beauty is different to yours.
yours will be different to that of Shawn .
You can understand that, but you can’t understand that the theist sees a different world?
That you think yours comes from god is your personal belief .
It’s not a belief, for the theist. It’s an experience. The theist experiences a Goddy world. You’re thinking of it as a belief within the same basic worldview framework as your own – one that can be removed or added. What I’m saying is that the framework itself is different.
I still have an interpretation of such abstracts as truth, goodness and beauty sans a god.
God is not needed to think in the abstract.
No, it’s not, but for the theist, they are inextricably linked. To the point where they may even think of “truth”, “goodness” and “beauty” differently from you in many ways.
It’s not a different thing from the same perspective. It’s a different perspective.
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One of the few times that logs of wood are not being thrown about and proving interesting to me.
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