Friday, January 27, 2017

Over the top? Voter fraud? ID?

Voting fraud and ID issue
I think Trump is right. It is common knowledge that vote-rigging on a massive scale has been achieved in favour of the Democrats in some parts of the USA. Double voting, multiple identities, dead voters, illegal immigrants, etc etc.
I think Trump understands the nature of the political war that the Left has long since been waging. Taking on the MSM head-on is part of this. No-one on “the right” had ever thought this possible before. The default consequences is media talking heads effectively running the country, including through the terms of caretaker “centre right” governments who simply continue the left’s long-term agenda for them so as to be able to say they “won”.
The Left has come to assume that there would never be any push-back, hence their arrogance and over-reach on such basic things as voter fraud. I would put money on it that a proper investigation will reveal rotting skeletons all over the place.

 Is there proof of voter fraud?
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In DNC campaign worker/contractor Scott Foval’s words:
https://youtu.be/hDc8PVCvfKs?t=42
Foval worked as the deputy political director for People For the American Way and the national field director for Americans United for Change (AUC), two progressive 501(c)(4) nonprofit organizations. He also worked as a contractor with Democracy Partners, a political consulting firm.
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Why is “requiring ID” ever “racist”????
This is classic lefty bait-and-switch political argument.
It is like saying proper policing is “racist” because a disproportional amount of the criminals caught are of a particular race. The remedy according to the left, is to stop policing and especially stop policing the racial minorities involved. This is actually effectively a license to commit crime.
“ID” is simply a sensible part of a properly functioning trust-based society. Abolishing any requirement for it would lead banks offering credit facilities, for example, into loss-making and bankruptcy, because they would become a target of organised opportunists. Is “the vote” so unimportant that we don’t need to bother about preventing fraud through simple ID measures? Abandon this requirement on whatever pretext, and as with the other examples, the outcome will be systematized fraud. Not by any particular race, either.
If you don’t have “ID” in this day and age, you might as well go and subsist in the wilderness somewhere. Don’t expect to be granted credit, granted tenancy of a living quarters, granted public library membership – or a vote. What’s so dam hard about that?

He’s just actually properly fighting the political war that the right should have been fighting all along. The left have got so arrogant because of lack of real push-back, that it is common knowledge they are into voter fraud on a massive scale.
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Again is there proof of voter fraud?
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......... is the sort of McCain-esque, Cameron-esque, Key-esque “righty in name only” who would say “let it go” on the CAGW fraud, “let it go” on the Treaty fraud, “let it go” on enviro and nuclear lies, “let it go” on urban train set and tram subsidies, “let it go” on anti-smacking, “let it go” on middle class welfare, “let it go” on urban planning and house prices, etc etc. Under this approach, “centre right” governments are in the same relationship with the Left as the Vichy government in France was with the Germans 1940 onwards. Basically acting as puppets while pretending they “didn’t lose the war”.
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Is there enough proof of voter fraud, and is it on a  grand scale?
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Ultimately everyone to the right of Karl Marx becomes an “extremist” if the left is allowed to keep ratcheting the standard to the left indefinitely.
What I am talking about is blatant lies and frauds from the left going unchallenged by the mainstream “right”, because they have become addicted to virtue-signalling and gaining the approval of MSM talking heads. Historical revisionism is one example, with NZ’s colonial history a classic case. CAGW is another. Enviro propaganda generally is another. Multi-cultural relativist pandering is another.
The USA has a Trump who has stood up and said “the emperor has no clothes” while there are still enough people with enough common sense to actually respond.
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I would have thought that looking for electoral fraud, and if found, doing something about it, would be regarded as a very good thing
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If found?
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Exactly! Doing nothing about the systematizing of vote fraud by the Left, just because your side won this time and still has won sometimes in spite of the scale of the fraud, is ridiculous. The systematic fraud certainly won’t do anything other than get bolder and bolder otherwise.
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If fraud is possible (and especially in States without voter ID you will never convince me it’s not possible) it must be guarded against. And you won’t find it without looking for it.
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Many years of searching has already confirmed that voter fraud is virtually non-existent.
Remember G W Bush firing the US attorneys who refused to waste their time chasing this phantom?
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/17/no-voter-fraud-isnt-myth-10-cases-where-its-all-to/
1. Dead people voting in Colorado.
2. Illegals found voting in Virginia; only discovered after they self-reported.
3. Some Pennsylvania citizens voting twice.
4. Voter rigging triggers probe in Texas.
5. Indiana voter fraud investigation grows to 56 counties.
6. Three under investigation in Oklahoma for voting twice in the presidential primary.
7. Election fraud in Kentucky.
8. Underage voters found voting in Wisconsin’s presidential primary.
9. Voter registration cards sent to illegals in Pennsylvania.
In Georgia, where I have property, I recall stories after the 2012 election of some crossing into North Carolina, where non-photo ID is only vaguely required, to vote again.
But I guess you’d know more about it than I, so I shall defer to you.
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10. Illegal voters uncovered in Philadelphia; half had previously voted.
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Why would needing to prove your identity with photo ID before you can vote be a bad thing?
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Because that would be unconstitutional.
The US Constitution specifically leaves to the states, voting and enrollment.
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Yes, but the federal govt can influence the states in many ways. Like the way they deny funding to universities (nominally independent) who don’t do things they want. Or, for a right wing example, the way they deny funding to groups that support abortion, even if they do many other good works as well
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The voter-fraud issue is probably bogus, but either way he gets criticised – as you have with this post, or if he does not do anything, then his critics will accuse him of failing to keep an election promise and crying “wolf” during the election campaign.
So he may as well keep the promise. He keeps faith with his supporters, adds to his credibility, and does not waste his time trying to appease or woo those who are implacably opposed to his cause, success and administration.
Good and sensible politics. And I’m no fan of Trump
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The issue for me Kimbo is consistency.
If the Dem’s do it its wicked evil and corrupt.
If the Don does it is virtue of the highest order.
Personally I have no problem with the actual action of vote investigation. It’s the pathetic partisan BULLSHIT that has reached eye level.
From both sides!
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No disagreement from me! Out goes Obama, in goes Trump, and their detractors and supporters switch positions and arguments, and rationalise the actions of their new champion or nemesis to equally ridiculous degrees.
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Criticised either way but also, either way he wins. A review will uncover some voter fraud, even if not much. Or maybe much. He can say – told you so, I will fix it. Democracy and patriotism and all that.
If there is some GOP fraud uncovered, he can say – I’m agin fraud regardless of where it falls. I will fix it. Democracy and patriotism and all that.
Followed by – and Americans, that is why the process in the Constitution was so farsighted and right.
What downside could there be?
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At least he will fix the system so he has a fair shot at the next election. Voter ID and registration has to be enforced. They might be able to round up a few wanted criminals and illegal aliens at the same time.
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You may find that that sort of reasoning could have voter ID laws declared unconstitutional. It is the USA, after all!
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we’re obsessing about the Don , here goes again. It’s all about his ego.
‘Malone has met Trump and did one business deal with him many years ago. “He is very bright. The only thing bigger than his brain is his ego. His ego will drive him to try and be the best president the country has ever had and to win.
“For him, every negotiation is a chance to win. It’s all about winning. He’s trying to assemble a team that wants to win.”
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The Don is very clever. Investigate find some instances of voter fraud tighten up the rules around registering to vote and the voting process itself and the illegals who support the Democrats dont get to vote.
Problem solved!!!!
And the beauty is the premise is that only those who qualify by the law get to register and to vote.
So whats the opposition to that premise.
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Blacks can’t afford ID’s so it’s racist.
This is the literal reason Democrats give.
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A recent voter-ID study by political scientists at the University of California at San Diego analyzed turnout in elections between 2008 and 2012 and found “substantial drops in turnout for minorities under strict voter ID laws.”
“These results suggest that by instituting strict photo ID laws, states could minimize the influence of voters on the left and could dramatically alter the political leaning of the electorate,” the study concluded.
The question of whether photo IDs are difficult to obtain has become central to cases across the country, where government and civil rights lawyers are challenging new state laws.
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 There are a couple of things there, ABS, none of which support your claim that the contention is that blacks can’t afford IDs. That might be one part of it, but there are more factors.
It basically comes down to why and how restrictions are imposed. For example, if you are requiring drivers’ licenses as IDs to vote for communities that have a very low level of vehicle ownership then you might ask why that standard is being imposed
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Simple solution: Tie in Voter ID with Social Security number. Every citizen has one. 1 number, 1 vote. I bet these people have no problems registering for welfare and food stamps or coming up with the required ID to get these.
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 To vote you have to be enrolled first, which requires a list of identity items.
To be enrolled you have to satisfy them that you are:
US Citizen
Resident of that state
Over 18
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States set the rules for enrolments. I was looking at California
Tell me a state that doesnt ask for multiple forms of ID ?
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The fraud typically happens after enrolment. Opportunities for fraud include:
1. Enrolling in multiple states
2. Voting multiple times on a single enrolment
3. Voting on behalf of someone else (someone who is dead, who has moved away, or who is choosing not to vote)
You’re focusing on enrolment, the GOP are focusing on what you need to do to actually vote, not to enrol.
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Enrol in 1982, then vote every election since? Even though you’re dead? What id does someone who is voting on your behalf need to provide to prove they’re you? I think you’re turning a blind eye to many opportunities for fraud.
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There is no history of widespread voter fraud in U.S. elections. Leading Republicans, including the top Republican in Congress, House of Representatives Speaker Paul Ryan, have rejected the claims.
Federal investigations of voter fraud are rare. A five-year probe initiated by Republican President George W. Bush’s administration turned up no evidence of voter fraud and ended in resignations and more investigations for the Department of Justice, which enforces federal voting rights laws.
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Project Veritas = has video of Dem operative explaining how they (Dems) BUS people from location to location to location – to VOTE MULTIPLE TIMES.
True The Vote = court case(s) in at least 1 (or more) USA states where Dems voted MULTIPLE TIMES.
There’s 2 for you. This is the “common knowledge”.
Left was ‘assuming’ the Right was doing WHAT THEY DO.
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Project Veritas has been debunked so many times that anyone using its fake videos as evidence of anything automatically loses the argument.
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Democrat operatives who resigned because of the Veritas vids that they didn’t need to after all, 
I’m sure they’ll be very grateful mm, maybe you’ll get a write-up in the WaPo, after all, that’s not “fake news” at all, is it.
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“Debunked”??? Like the hockey stick, say?
I love the left’s ability to kid itself it has debunked something. I guess when the entire MSM helps maintain the illusion, you get arrogant. This is now changing, and not before time.
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We are in an age where people are getting the chance to make up their own minds about things instead of getting fed fake news by a hegemonic MSM.
As the blurb for Veritas says, if you are of the left, you are on notice. What you are saying and doing in your echo-chambers and bureaucratic fraud-fests may now be getting covertly videoed by a citizen journalist. Bring it on.
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Heres the direct text out of the California National Voter Registration Act – Subsection 4 Page 20″
“Voter Registration Cards where the voter indicates he or she is not a U.S.
Citizen:
The VRC asks the applicant if he or she is a United States citizen. The voter may check either “Yes”, “No”, or not check either box. If the voter indicates, by checking the “yes” box, that he or she is a U.S. citizen, the registration should be processed normally. If the voter indicates, by checking the “No” box, that he or she is not a U.S. citizen, the registration may not be entered on the voter rolls. The elections
official should send the voter a returnable card or letter requesting clarification as to whether or not the voter is a U.S. citizen. If the voter returns the card indicating that he or she is a U.S. citizen, the VRC should be entered on the voter rolls. If the card is returned and the voter indicates he or she is not a citizen, or if
no response is received from the voter, then the voter shall not be registered. If the voter does not check either the “Yes” or “No” box, and the registration is otherwise complete, the registration should be processed normally and entered on the voter rolls.”
In other words if you refuse to confirm or deny your US citizenry, you are still registered to vote.
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So why is he so obsessed over trying to claim he won the popular vote also, when he clearly didn’t.
Because this is a direct attack against the core of party politics, it will hit the establishment GOP and the Democrats.
Trump is a populist and when he attacks party politics he wins. This is him laying some groundwork for victory in 2020.
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I suspect there is massive voter fraud. The reason Democrats are so happy for illegal immigrants to come into the United States is that they want them to vote. I suspect that they are voting and in places like California they are voting big. I suspect the mainstream media don’t care about this and don’t want to know about this.
The very same people who were wrong about Trump in the election I reckon are wrong now on this issue.
Scott predicts that there will be an investigation and it will show that thousands and thousands and thousands of illegal immigrants will have voted for Hillary Clinton in places like California.
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Well I think it is great that Trump is getting the evidence to confirm that he did not get a majority of the popular vote.
His ego is such that he will not believe this otherwise. Pride and hubris and all that.
That said a lot of this is politics as usual – GOP activists claim there is a problem with illegal voting by their opponents and thus a need for voter ID (but specifying a form that many inner city urban residents do not have – licenses).
But the only positive outcome to this (ego and or GOP partisanship) is if there is development of a better electoral process.
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It’s not a distraction, it’s well calculated. The Republicans are keen to get on with voter suppression and Trump is laying the groundwork by scaremongering about voter fraud
Nonsense – the States run the elections, not central Government and it is clear there are huge problems with the process in some states if not all
One obvious one is people enrolled to vote in two different States and we know people have been bussed to vote in States where they don’t live.
There are probably thousands of people registered in both New York and Florida and it is this phenomena that accounts for Florida being a swing state or contributes to it
Looking into these things is sensible
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Is it not amazing that so many people are stumped by Trump doing things that make no political sense yet make tremendous practical sense?
It’s almost as if Trump is not a politician and wants to actually cleanse out decades of politically motivated detritus.
I guess all worshipers of the establishment (left and right) find all this terribly confusing.
Long may it continue, their tears help wash the shit away.
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I agree. What’s more the electoral fraud issue is quite clever. If he goes looking and finds none, he can say the system is great, and he’s checked. If he finds fraud (which I think he will) then liberal heads will expolde everywhere.
“I will be asking for a major investigation into VOTER FRAUD, including those registered to vote in two states,” Trump tweeted Wednesday — apparently unaware that his daughter Tiffany Trump, Chief White House Strategist Stephen Bannon and Treasury Secretary pick Steven Mnuchin were all reportedly registered to vote in two states during the 2016 election.
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I think you got this one wrong DPF. The GOP has long campaigned on voter fraud. The ideal time is when the left is complaining about voter fraud big time. They can hardly complain now, can they?
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a) A very large illegal population concentrated around California and other south west states,
b) A study looking at Hispanics showing that 13% of a group that are definitely not allowed to vote are currently registered to vote,
c) An EXTREMELY LARGE motivation to vote, and vote for Clinton, because Trump was actually going to take action against illegals.
d) No less than President Obama telling illegals to go ahead and vote because “The privacy of the ballot box is paramount”. (I wish he could have been impeached for that.)
e) Extremely lax voting laws in California that rely on people acting on their honour to say if they have citizenship or not (So we’re trusting people who have already proven that they are criminals to honestly say they aren’t citizens), and then getting a ID that allows them to vote. Note that in the Podesta e-mails, he actually says (incorrectly) that illegals are allowed to vote in California.
and then
f) The massive difference in the popular vote in the other 49 states (not including California) where Trump won, and the vote in California,
and then think that illegal immigrants weren’t voting in HUGE numbers.
This is a fight that has to be undertaken and undertaken NOW. We need to make sure that only USA citizens can vote in USA elections
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a) A very large illegal population concentrated around California and other south west states,
b) A study looking at Hispanics showing that 13% of a group that are definitely not allowed to vote are currently registered to vote,
c) An EXTREMELY LARGE motivation to vote, and vote for Clinton, because Trump was actually going to take action against illegals.
d) No less than President Obama telling illegals to go ahead and vote because “The privacy of the ballot box is paramount”. (I wish he could have been impeached for that.)
e) Extremely lax voting laws in California that rely on people acting on their honour to say if they have citizenship or not (So we’re trusting people who have already proven that they are criminals to honestly say they aren’t citizens), and then getting a ID that allows them to vote. Note that in the Podesta e-mails, he actually says (incorrectly) that illegals are allowed to vote in California.
and then
f) The massive difference in the popular vote in the other 49 states (not including California) where Trump won, and the vote in California,
and then think that illegal immigrants weren’t voting in HUGE numbers.
This is a fight that has to be undertaken and undertaken NOW. We need to make sure that only USA citizens can vote in USA elections.
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California is far stricter than that, they ask for 4 items for voting, one is :
eg Photo Drivers License, you have to satisfy this list
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/dl/dl_info#BDLP
Only the original or a certified copy of one of the following documents is acceptable:
US Birth Certificate (certified copy from state or local vital statistics office)
US Certificate of Birth Abroad or Report of Birth Abroad
Federal Proof of Indian Blood Degree
USCIS American Indian Card
Birth Certificate or passport issued from a US Territory
US Passport
US Military Identification Cards (Active or reserve duty, dependent of a military member, retired member, discharged from service, medical/religious personnel)
Certificate of Naturalization or Citizenship
Northern Mariana Card
USCIS US Citizen ID Card
Permanent Resident Card
Temporary Resident Identification Card
Canadian Passport/Birth Certificate
Non-resident Alien Canadian Border Crossing Card
Valid foreign passport with a valid Record of Arrival/Departure (form I-94)
“Processed for I-551” stamped in a valid foreign passport
Permanent Resident Re-entry Permit
Refugee travel document.
Any non US citizens would have the details showing they are non citizens from above
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“In theory”.
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That’s the rules for getting a driver’s license. Which in turn is the document the Republicans think you should produce in order to vote. So you’re saying that California already does the thing that Trump wants? In which case, why the excitement about Trump suggesting it? Or are you just obfuscating again in your usual way?
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Claims of large scale voter fraud are perennial in the U.S and have never been substantiated.
Small efforts have been discovered demonstrating an ability to uncover such fraud, but never on a large scale.
And it’s been looked for…
Lorraine C. Minnite, Rutgers University-Camden; Under Republican President George W. Bush, the U.S. Justice Department searched for voter fraud. But in the first three years of the program, just 26 people were convicted or pled guilty to illegal registration or voting. Out of 197,056,035 votes cast in the two federal elections held during that period, the rate of voter fraud was a miniscule 0.00000132 percent!
I imagine Trumps, and by extension the Republican parties, plan is not unlike the never-ending investigations into Clinton and Benghazi et al – they’ll use the investigation as a stalking horse to find any little thing they can hang on opponents as click bait for hungry news services to pick over, and ignore anything that doesn’t satisfy that ambition, creating an impression of something bad simply by dint of unending investigation, leaks and manufactured scandal.
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Trump might actually check on the credentials of the people doing the investigation. Bush was a typical centre-right pushover, no idea of what he was up against. Didn’t even pardon Scooter Libby.
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And that’s the fake news version that GW Bush didn’t push back against, probably because the Republican establishment was trying out an experiment in winning the other side over by being “nice”.
Libby was convicted on the “evidence” of one person’s word versus his – a lefty journalist’s. What is not at doubt is that the identity of the agent was leaked by Richard Armitage, a Democrat hold-over (see how niiiiice the Bushies were?) who was never prosecuted for it. That also happens to be not what Libby was sentenced for: he was sentenced for “perjury”. On the grounds of the word of a lefty journo against his.
According to him, the journo mentioned the agent’s identity first (and this with Libby not knowing at the time that Armitage had told the journo) and all Libby did was respond something like “oh, so you know about that”? On this basis the journo “co-operated with a prosecution” to get a public case made against the whole Bush Admin, by creating dots that didn’t exist, for the MSM to “connect”.
This is how even jury-based justice can be perverted by political narratives from the MSM scum, not to mention enabled by one of their own bearing false witness. It could just as easily have been the journo sentenced for “perjury”. The prosecution went the way it did solely because of the fake-news, contrived narrative it served. Libby was scandalously wronged. Whoever persuaded Bush not to pardon him, is the epitome of the “in name only” syndrome that has been a plague of right-wing parties in the west for a decade or more. The left now has its knickers in a knot because there is a Republican POTUS who is not one of their eunuchs.
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What Trump needs to do is make Federal votes count only if they’re on paper and counted publicly.
No e-votes.
And this is his first move in bringing that in, in time for 2021.
The question is: is he just going after the Dems (who every informed person knows is the most guilty)? But if he was going to just do that why would he investigate more than just this last election (where corruption has been particularly rampant on the Dem side)? Which he has said he is doing:
I think in terms of registration, where you’ve got folks on rolls that have deceased, or moved, or registered in two counties…this is not just about the 2016 election, this is about the integrity of our voting system,” Spicer told reporters when asked about the upcoming investigation.
So he’s going after more than that, more than just the Dems.
I wonder if he’s looking to discredit both major parties. He knows he’s going to have problems in Congress. The only time he’ll get anything passed is when it happens to coincide with what one of the power centres happen also to want. But any other time…
Throughout his campaign he reached over the media to the people. He continues that with Twitter. Maybe this is the opening salvo in another appeal to the people, this time exposing with transparency what has in fact been going on, just previously being covered up by both involved parties. Because they do hold their democracy sacred don’t they, and anyone who damages that, well.
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Worth reiterating. Direct from section IV page 20 of the California Voter Registration Act
“If the voter does not check either the “Yes” or “No” box, and the registration is otherwise complete, the registration should be processed normally and entered on the voter rolls.”
I wonder if others from other countries are able to vote?
An interesting thread,



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